When Anime Past Meets Present

58 Responses to “So What Is It That Makes People Keep Insisting That Code Geass R2 Makes No Sense? (It’s Finally Time To Confront The Organized Trolling)”

1. 1 Haesslich August 2, 2008 at 9:54 pm

   Grace “suddenly” becoming a villain’s actually acceptable - her whole ‘tapping into the feeds’ thing a few episodes earlier, where she was spying on the meeting, was a tad ominous. The fact that Galaxy’s been revealed as being intact and probably involved in a conspiracy that may result in them and their parent companies holding a monopoly on space travel (and thus, effective control of human space by being able to deliver military forces anywhere far faster than NUNS could) isn’t all that surprising. Heck, this is the universe where Anti-UN Spacy forces have been active for decades… and several of the games cover attempted rebellions and secession attempts from the UN Spacy.

   Besides, where was it established in canon that Miclonization of Zentradi always results in an identical copy? If anything, Exedol appears to have become shorter than he was relative to Vrlitwhai when he got Miclonized. They’re clones, and there’s undoubtedly some changes or genetic damage that has accumulated over centuries, so Klein’s… oddness in stature isn’t completely out there, at least not compared to Sound Force and the Protodevlin.

2. 2 Kaioshin Sama August 2, 2008 at 10:25 pm

   @Haeeslich: Yeah I’m liking how Dune like Macross Frontier is becoming when you think about it. Still Grace feels just as sudden to me as some of the character revelations in Geass and even if Macross Frontier is somewhere inbetween Plus and Seven on the silliness scale, it seems to be moving towards Seven more every week. What am I saying though, I liked Seven despite it’s oddness.

   Exedol is also an anonmaly as a result of the differing character designs seen between the movie and the TV Series and I’m pretty sure that even Macronized he was always a bit shorter then Vriltwhai any way. He had that extra scrawny appearance in the TV series after all. Even still, I don’t believe genetics work the way they do with Klein. reversing your age, changing your personality entirely and yet allowing memories to remain intact. At least not to my knowledge. It’s still farfetched and executed as a point of interest for the show above all else in my opinion. That’s really not a problem though, at least for me, but I recognize it just the same.

   My point is that like Code Geass it’s a fictional universe that can define it’s own set of rules via the right of creative writing on part of the staff and it does so, yet people seem to be more accepting when Macross Frontier makes it’s own canon and science fiction rules as opposed to Code Geass when it does similiar things. And I think it’s deliberate.

3. 3 FF August 2, 2008 at 10:41 pm

   As in most fantasy/SF works, the only two questions you need to ask to determine the plausibility of the various plot and character elements is this: is it consistent with the world and rules and personalities that the author has set out so far? If it is not, then you can already mark it down as bad writing. It is perfectly possible to do plot or character twists without breaking your own rules with good writing technique and enough pre-planning.

   The second question is: if something does break the rules, or a character acts contrary to his personality and previous actions, has there been a logical (RL logic) explanation as to why this has occurred? If so, it’s still bad writing, but the reader can accept it and move on with the modified rules without too much cause for complaint. It’s effectively a form of retconning.

   Having illogical rules in a fantasy/SF world is something you can get away with, or even a good thing if these illogical rules contribute in some way to the central themes that one wishes to present through the story. However, if you are going to set illogical rules, then breaking them for illogical reasons is just an example of atrocious writing.

   I haven’t watched Code Geass, only followed it on blogs, but it strikes me that several of the twists so far in the series have been fairly ridiculous and illogical. I’ll let people more learned than I more about Code Geass decide whether or not the twists and turns are consistent with the world methodology or not.

4. 4 Camario August 2, 2008 at 11:10 pm

   Letting off some steam is good, but so is taking a deep breath every once in a while.

   I think a lot of what you’ve described has definitely become deliberate, for the sake of popular amusement and “lulz”…so it’s certainly become a matter of “trolling”. But I don’t that’s all, nor did it happen all at once.

   To me, it looks more like something that began to spread and then, finally, became “the popular thing to do” towards the later half of the first season, give or take a few episodes.

   Now, I would never say that Code Geass doesn’t make “any sense at all”. In fact I’ve also made my fair share of blog or forum comments trying to explain things here and there. Not all the explanations are good (some are quite disappointing), but at least some sense of logic remains, to the staff’s credit. Sometimes the idea sounds good, but it’s not treated well in the anime.

   On the other hand, Code Geass does resort to more plot twists than the average show I can think of, and many of them turn out either a little ridiculous or at least unexpected.

   Once you have enough people thinking that, and focusing on it above all…they start to comment and convince others, which, finally, creates a “wave” which is followed out of conviction, posturing, trolling, or just to have fun.

   Especially if they’re “popular” and “influential” individuals, at least online. But they wouldn’t have the same audience if some people didn’t reach those conclusions on their own too.

   Don’t get me wrong. Some plot twists do get plenty of build-up or at least a little foreshadowing, which shows that the staff is making an effort, but it doesn’t always work. Plot twists may seem a little outrageous even if they do make sense in the show’s universe, and I can’t disagree. Some incidents look simply too over the top for people to give any credit, even where it is due.

   Yes, Code Geass has always had its own standards, so realism shouldn’t be too much of a concern by now. But perhaps those standards did not meet some people’s initial expectations, considering how the show has also accumulated huge levels of hype over time, and time hasn’t made that any better.

   Maybe a different balance between all the elements making up the show was expected, and it didn’t arrive.

   To sum it up: Code Geass has, indeed, been overbashed, much of it deliberately…but it’s also been overhyped, and other people criticize it on their own for understandable reasons.

   Trolling is never going to go away, at least not in the short term, but it’s better to focus on one’s own enjoyment of the show, one way or another.

   By the way, I cannot speak for Macross Frontier or most currently airing shows, because I’m not watching much anime right now. Ny watch list is out of date. I just don’t mind spoilers, and will probably marathon Frontier when it’s done.

5. 5 Camario August 2, 2008 at 11:22 pm

   FF: Interesting questions.

   I’m not going to go over every single twist in the show, as that would be a tiring endeavor, but as of R2…I think the Code Geass “world” has established itself as quite consistent in its ability to allow its own characters to go over the top.

   That being the case, I think most of the twists could be called ridiculous than illogical, inside the fictional world at least…and I do think the show’s central themes are advanced fairly well through their use, in the main cases, even when they are also going to be played for intentional or unintentional laughs. Which is natural.

   Doesn’t mean there aren’t cases of bad writing or at least a bad implementation of said writing (say, if something had been animated differently, or if more time had been used to show this or that before something else came along…). And vice versa.

6. 6 Haesslich August 3, 2008 at 1:44 am

   Kaoishin: Exedol was ALWAYS shorter than Vrlitwhai: it’s just that, proportionally, he seems to have SHRUNK even in the TV series. Granted, the animation in the original series wasn’t exactly on the standard of an OVA (see often-recycled footage, and the weird faces that sometimes got drawn), but he did seem to be much shorter than anyone else. If Miriya/Millia stayed the same relative height in both Macronized and Miclonized forms… well, Exedol sure didn’t - he seems to have lost a few inches in the process.

   Plus, Grace isn’t one being, but apparently an amalgamation of people… or else she’s just part of a hive-mind, which explains why we had the weird recap episode in 15. So, if she’s NOT one being but a gestalt or a member of a collective, her ’shift’ makes a lot of sense as another personality or the group chooses to follow a different route. But as a member of a private industry (probable) conspiracy, it makes sense to attach her to the Galactic Fairy as a manager, since she’d have access to the data-systems of every Macross fleet she visited with her skills and implants. Besides, Macross Frontier is following existing canon for the most part - it’s easier to follow the trends, and accept things as is, when it’s part of a larger framework whereas Code Geass… isn’t, and thus if they suddenly change direction (going from harem anime to mecha show to Death Note-style drama), you risk alienating fans of that specific element of the show, who have expectations that are suddenly not met.

   Plus, things sometimes fall into place TOO neatly for Lulu or the other characters, which makes the ‘ridiculous’ charges stick a bit more tightly to them than to Macross F. Oh, that and the way they bring up a plot point (Kallen getting captured and Lulu vowing publically to rescue her) and then apparently forget about it for a half-dozen episodes can be a pain. At this point, if the OotBK do abandon Lulu, it’ll be because they don’t expect him to keep any promises; the fact that Kallen’s still in captivity, and apparently not talked about by Lulu would only feed fears that he’s using them and is probably going to kill them all off to further his personal aims… which from their POV may not include freeing Japan.

7. 7 Kaioshin Sama August 3, 2008 at 2:15 am

   @FF: Thank you for going over the golden rules of Science Fiction/Fantasy writing. That’s the kind of framework I wish people would following when they do there “Urghhh this doesn’t make any sense lol” comments, but alas.

   @Camario: If you must know one of my nicknames for the show is in fact Code Plot Twist. And it’s also possible that because I have indeed seen the movie Reindeer Games that no amount of plot twists can ever effect me anymore and throw me for a loop. If Code Geass has a plot twist per episode or two, Reindeer Games has a plot twist every 5 minutes.

   Again I’ll say though that people seem to hold differing standards in similar situations based on anime they are watching. Maybe it’s because the series was overhyped, but then again another over the top anime by the name of Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu was also massively overhyped along the way by it’s fans and has only really started to see any sort of backlash recently. Unless it actually has to be preliminary hype. Come to think of it I heard a lot of complaining about Clannad as was going with people talking a lot about the hype and expectations not met so I guess that could be the case. When the heck did anime watching get so complicated anyway?

   @Haesslich: Geass has always BEEN all those things, other then a Death Note style-drama. I think that “mental duel” is more appropriate. I’ll give people the Karen thing. That kind of annoyed me a little to, but I also think it’s part of his game. The way he’s been going, for every successful step toward his goal he’s made, he’s lost one person important to him. In founding the United States of Japan he lost Nunally’s respect and any chance of rescuing her, in allying with China he lost Karen to Britannia, in securing Rolo as an ally so he could get the spy network of his tail he eventually lost Shirley and in bringing down the Geass Cult he lost C.C. More or less of course. It’s not ridiculous, it’s just bitter for a lack of a better word. If anything the only reason things fall into place for Lelouch is because he’s willing to make any sacrifice to make sure he comes out on top. He’s not afraid to become evil to defeat evil. That old cliche.

   I’d invite you to point out where Code Geass isn’t following canon though. Most people just don’t want to out themselves on that ground which makes it harder to buy their conclusions when they state them as anything other then following the leader. I wrote this article just as much as an invitation for answers as I did a general rant so please don’t hesitate to kick in examples.

8. 8 Var August 3, 2008 at 2:18 am

   He’s mentioned Kallen in nearly every preview, and, as we saw last Season, that was our glimpse into Lelouch’s mind for planning and thinking for the next turn/stage. Otherwise, we could argue that he forgot about Nunally for some 10 episodes because he never mentioned her even though he is his reason for doing everything… same for every other thing, really. We could even say he up and forgot all about Shirley too.

   There’s also a good chance that Rolo et all that are in the Tokyo settlement aren’t there just for a stroll. Two top assassins, Guilford being goaded by Jeremiah likely with Cornelia, could very easily, and not all that unexpectedly, turn into a Kallen rescue mission.

   But aside from that, winning post is winning.

9. 9 Haesslich August 3, 2008 at 4:41 am

   Kaioshin: I’m saying that Code Geass doesn’t HAVE a canon to follow, which means when things suddenly go another way there’s no fallback to the “well, this happened before in X series” to explain away any perceived inconsistencies.

   Prime example: Vajra are being affected by a singing Ranka. Look back to Macross 7, where we have Protodevlin being affected by music and the Zentradi being affected by it as well. Given that she’s transmitting this, it’s not inexplicable that the Vajra could get confused, especially if she’s the equivalent of ECM to them… which, given their hive nature and how Brera explained that they were constantly communicating, makes the whole ‘Vajra get confused, then die’ thing make sense in the previous few episodes.

   Code Geass, on the other hand, doesn’t have that convenient in-universe example so when anything happens we’re probably seeing it for the first time unless it happened in a previous season. This means that, when we see Lulu using a rain of mirrors to reflect his Geass into Charles’ eyes, it looks funny unless you remember Lulu Geassing himself in the first season which explains why he can use those mirrors to do the trick he did in Ep 15.

10. 10 Kaioshin Sama August 3, 2008 at 5:30 am

    @Haesslich: Oh yes of course. So then each new element that comes seems all the more out of the blue and if it’s especially out of the blue to begin with it’s compounded. That makes sense, but then again that’s the thing with these original franchises though and that gets me thinking about another subject. The way I see it if they (the writers I mean) just played by convention all the time or were afraid to take risks and throw the unexpected at viewers then anime would never make any progress as a medium of entertainment. To me new ideas, even if they are somewhat overwrought are welcome in a market that even producers themselves admit they are afraid to take risks in because of just how tight things are getting economy wise in Japan. It’s not just the games and housing we talked about yesterday, it’s affecting everything.

    That’s one of the reasons that we are seeing as much revolutionary anime as we saw in the 80’s and early 90’s and why we see a lot of what I like to call safe series or those that play by convention amd expectation and have pre-installed fanbases. Eroge adaptations, straight fanservice series, adaptations of already hit manga are all what I classify as safe series and I’d like to see a little more risk taking of the kind Sunrise and also Gainax seem to be fans of. So when people just like to immediately reject these types of unexpected plot elements as bad writing because it’s not what they expected it seems to me like they are indirectly saying they don’t want to see the unexpected or the unusual. Well…geez guys isn’t that like the very basis of Science-Fiction/Fantasy, Entertainment and escapism like anime itself, to see the unexpected and the fantastical? Are we still afraid of that which we don’t know or cannot predict even if it’s all contained in the world of fiction? Shouldn’t we be embracing the course of the story (to a reasonable degree of course) even if it doesn’t turn out exactly as we have predictied.

    I mean sometimes I think if we had it the more critical fans way all we’d see are straight moe series and Slice of Life franchises. Luckily (at least in my opinion) we don’t have it there way no matter how much they seem to be trying to draw us into their world of the way things apparently should be.

    And the whole music as a weapon thing goes back as far as the original Macross, just like you mention some elements like the visible Geass go back pretty far as well. You’d think even if Code Geass is still just one series that people would be used to these types of things by now and have made up their mind on them already whether they will accept it or not. I don’t see why some people seem insistant on trumpeting the same old tired slams of the show being ridiculous, not making sense, being “fabulous” etc. week after week other then Jason of course who built his blog on that sort of thing. Once should be enough to get any static point across unless we are dealing with trolls who don’t stop until the lulz do or people are refining said point. And if it’s for some reason absolutely necessary to beat a static idea to death frankly one blog or hub for it all to go should be enough and we don’t need like 6 of them all offering the exact same commentary (literally) unless they are communicating amongst themselves and sharing ideas, going for a blanket effect of trollish bashing. So that’s another checkmark beside this increasingly suspect behaviour among certain groups.

    And hey, thanks for spelling my username right this time. You have no idea how often that O and I get reversed on me.

    @Camario: Just wanted to add that I had remembered seeing you make the overbashed but also overhyped comment somewhere else and couldn’t agree more with such a simple yet accurate description of the situation. Nicely put…..though I can’t say I’ve come across any blog that has hyped and put the series on a pedestal while it’s been airing quite to the degree I’ve seen it single-mindedly bashed for sport. And you know there are just some of them out there that had already made up their mind on the series before it even aired. And I know it will continue right on through to 00 and whatever comes after. Tales of The Abyss, who knows.

11. 11 No Sushi August 3, 2008 at 7:06 am

    Kaioshin: There’s no need to apologize, really. I completely understand the frustration one can feel about one’s environment and putting things down into words is a great way to get it off your chest.
    I personally don’t go out of my way to put my frustration of other people’s behaviours in the open like that, mostly because I’m too lazy. Also, I mostly don’t give a damn about silly accusations without any reasoning behind it… organized “trolling” if you will. If they don’t offer a substantial reason for their claim, I stop reading. Though sometimes too much repetition of the same thing does get to you, this I understand.
    Anyways, thanks for the nice recap of the series so far and keep up the good work!

    PS: A little bit off topic, but how do you keep your long posts from appearing full-sized on the front page? My friend and I are new at this blogging scene and we’d sure appreciate someone more experienced showing us the ropes. Thanks in advance to any good soul willing to help!

12. 12 Kaioshin Sama August 3, 2008 at 7:50 am

    @No Sushi: If you are using WordPress you can do it by pressing Alt+Shift+T with the cursor placed after the text you want to appear on your front page. There is also a button for it in the console that looks something like a smaller box on top, then a dotted line and then a larger box on the bottom. It should be the twelfth icon from the left on the top row of your console and that will put in the same exact divider that will split the page into a header (which will appear on the front page) and a body (which will only appear in the article itself).

    Good luck with your new blog.

13. 13 No Sushi August 3, 2008 at 9:37 am

    @Kaioshin: Domo arigatou! Now I can keep things neat and tidy again.
    It’s pretty obvious but I’m the same RoTK no sushi from the Chinese Federation arc. I’ve been reading the Animehistory blog for a while now (ever since CG R2 started) and it’s one of the only anime blogs I frequent (Animanachronism counts, but I’m not much of a retro person, so I can’t relate to most of the essays there unfortunately). I personally enjoy reading your Code Geass entries as well as your ‘one-man crusade’ with some of the less pleasant aspects of Anime blogging. Here’s looking forward to Gundam 00 Season II!

    Cheers.

14. 14 Haesslich August 3, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Kaioshin: It’s called typoese. Quite fluent in it.

    Also, new Geass is out. Fecal matter is about to meet the rotary impeller.

15. 15 Kurogane August 4, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    I am sorry, but I just got to ask: Which of the plot twists in Code Geass R2 (episode 1-16) are so overtly ridiculous? Please, just mention one because I am not sure I remember a twist that was so extremely out of nowhere that it made me bang my head on the desktop…..perhaps my memory is failing me.

    I also think you need to define the word “plot twist”, because its meaning might be just as confused as the meaning of the word “trainwreck” or “writing”. I mean, for example, finding out early on that Rollo has a Geass is not really a plot twist, but more a revelation (if we had found out that he had a Geass somewhere in the middle of the story when the writers made us think that he didn’t for quite a while, it would have been different). A plot twist has to be a sharp, but somewhat logical 90 degrees turn either in terms of plot or characters (preferably preceded by a few red herrings) without upsetting the overall direction of the story. If I could think of one in the first season of Code Geass, it would probably be the fact that Shirley had shot Viletta to protect Lelouch’s secret. The writers made her seem like a pretty normal young girl and considering the fact that Lelouch had killed her father, it seemed quite unexpected. This had a significant effect on the overall plot and on her character development; one could pretty much argue that cataclysmically, it led to her own death in the end. But she herself explained that she loved Lelouch so much that she could only forgive him for all he had done, so it was more or less her love for him that had cost her her life.

    Now, is that what you call so over-the-top? It might just be, because not many might consider her actions logical. But reading the above comments, no one has yet come up with a good enough summary of the past 16 episodes, pointing out the nonsensical aspects of the storyline.

16. 16 Kaioshin Sama August 4, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Well a lot of people desperately insist that they and all of us must turn off our brains in order to enjoy/get Code Geass. Well gee maybe that’s the problem right there. Maybe if people actually started paying attention to the events in the show they’d see the nice clean narrative with a few bumps along the way that can also be easily understood with just a little forethought.

    The problem is that people are working themselves into the show not making sense through there own actions. The whole turn off your brain thing cause it’s not making sense should be reversed and read it’s not making sense because you turn off your brain, and there people have their solution to the self-created problem of Code Geass not making sense. It’s that self-fulfilling prophecy I’ve mentioned.

    Hey though, if people want to handle it that way that’s fine by me. I just don’t want to hear from anyone anymore that I am being to serious or watching the show the wrong way as it’s getting tiresome and annoying. If other bloggers and commentators are too stubborn/lazy to take the 5 minutes it took me to string the whole story together like in this article for themselves then that’s their own problem and I kind of have to laugh at them because it’s such a straightforward show if one that takes a lot of creative liberties in how it delivers it’s plot and character points.

    People should expect that by now though, which is why every time somebody whines about it not making sense I roll my eyes. Like are people just having writers block or can’t think of anything to contribute so they just keep trumpeting the same lame stuff over and over again Darry style? I don’t know, but it’s what makes most Code Geass blog articles and commentary chains a predictable affair and yawnfest and why I pretty much only stick to the people that put some thought/effort into it now. That being like 1 blogger. See if you can guess who it is folks. I just left a comment there yesterday.

17. 17 Kurogane August 4, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    Hmmm…that’s hard to guess! Uhm, Random Curiosity maybe? He/She’s pretty neutral even though his/her blog is quite popular. I wouldn’t mention any names, but there was one blogger whom I also thought to be smart enough to keep a level-headed stance but then the word “trainwreck” worked its way into one of his summaries….*sigh*

    Let’s hope that the second season of Gundam 00 won’t have to put up with this much brutality, though, considering the fact that it will probably have the same time slot as Code Geass and follow up right after R2….that doesn’t leave enough time for things to calm down!

18. 18 Haesslich August 4, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    This is Gundam 00 - of COURSE it’ll put up with brutality, especially with the parallels that’ll inevitably be drawn between it and R2 of Code Geass, right down to the arms race everyone’s engaged in as well as the plotting and double-crossing that will undoubtedly take place. Oh, and bringing back someone identical to Lockon, and even calling him that, will undoubtedly not prove all that popular.

    At least Sunrise has a sense of humor about the thing, as seen in the first CM for Gundam 00 S2. “How are you still alive?” “I’m not.” “A zombie…?”

19. 19 Epi August 5, 2008 at 12:42 am

    I think the problem with Code Geass isn’t that the plot makes no sense, obviously the plot is quite clear. You’d have to be pretty tired or just really bad at understanding anime to not understand the plot. The problem with Code Geass, the problem which most people find is the inconsistency and poor use of characters and side stories within the plot.

    The show feels like there’s 10 different writers all wanting to do something different, and somehow it’s being mashed together. The reason the show feels like that is multifold:

    1) There are WAY too many characters in the show. It honestly wouldn’t matter that there were this many characters, if it felt like there was a NEED for so many characters, but there really isn’t. It seems like every episode we’re introduced to more new people who seem quite important, but then because yet another new and important character gets introduced the next episode, the older guys are just forgotten or get token time on screen. It’s very, very hard to pull off a show with a lot of characters, and there’s only 1 show I’ve ever seen do it effectively (LoGH), but in that show they dedicated a lot of time to pure dialogue episodes and had a narrator.

    Another problem with having so many characters, is that characters end up being very one-dimensional. For instance, Suzaku started off as a very conflicted guy who represented a different version of morality, but lately it feels for most episodes he’s just a Lelouch-hater-because-he-killed-Euffie. Meanwhile CC has turned into one giant Pizza Hut commercial for most of this season (I mean they used her as a BUS DRIVER one episode and a MECHA PILOT the next). Rolo was a conflicted assassin, but now is just some crazy Lulu supporter and all purpose soldier (even though Lulu promised him that he wouldn’t have him fight anymore). We have Sayako suddenly being mega-maid for no reason. We have the entire Ogi never dying, Viletta coming back from nowhere, and the unkillable Orange-kun thing. It goes on and on… everyone becomes more and more one dimensional because the plot is too overloaded to do much more.

    2) There are way too many plot lines within the show. By trying to be all things to all people, Code Geass feels all over the place. This is the largest problem with the show. Somehow the show last season managed to keep many different genres together, but this season it just seemed a bit excessive. In a bid to keep the whole ‘high school’ thread going, we have some random episode where Lulu goes on 107 dates. We have the whole Xing-Ke doesn’t have much time to live plotline completely disappear and now he’s just some grunt super pilot. We have the entire Shirley dying, the entire Kallen getting captured plotlines, but no one remembers about them past our occasional 30 seconds with Kallen every episode. We have the whole Anya remembering Lelouch thing starting a few episodes ago which has fallen by the wayside. We have the Geass story itself which got 1 episode, and probably won’t get mention for a bunch more.

    3) The battles are getting less and less original. We had a few episodes with deus ex machina (the entire China battle arc), we had them using the same tactics over again (the floor falling thing), we had a lot of gundam style super mecha which sort of ruined the point of Code Geass which was that it was about intelligence and good tactics instead of Gundam power units which sadly has been lost to the plot.

    So because of character overload, plot overload, and falling quality of battles, and since we only have 7 episodes left (it’s 24 this season I believe?) there’s going to be a HUGE reckoning at the end. A lot of plotlines are going to be ‘resolved’ in the last few episodes (probably with lots of people dying), or actually more likely will be forgotten. Either way, it cannot be satisfying, as there is so much material to cover that there is no way to do it properly unless it is done too quickly (badly) or not at all. Thus we get the term, trainwreck.

    Regardless I still enjoy the show for pure entertainment value, because it does manage to be quite entertaining.

20. 20 Kaioshin Sama August 5, 2008 at 3:54 am

    @Kurogane: No Gundam 00 will without a doubt. Even if everybody else manages to enjoy it, Jason Miao and Darkmirage will find something to bitch about. Then again those two are easily written off as uncredible in their opinions for obvious reasons so it won’t matter really. Still though, just wait….

    @Epi: Wow, for once I can agree with somebodies concerns and I have to say I think those are all legitimate ones that I share. Well other then the super Gundam thing. Gundam’s aren’t really that powerful outside of Seed and Wing. What I disagree with is the notion that people have that nothing will ever get dealt with. People said that the Geass would never get explained and it did. People said that C.C’s origins would never get explained and they did, but then people just didn’t like what they got even if it makes perfect sense with what we’ve seen before it and people said that the Tian Zi abduction plan made no sense, but then it did. Every time there’s ultimately been an answer and resolution in the wing so I don’t see why the ending is going to be any different.

21. 21 Epi August 5, 2008 at 4:32 am

    Gundams in 00 are also over powered. I haven’t seen any pre-Wing Gundams so I can’t comment on earlier shows.

22. 22 Kaioshin Sama August 5, 2008 at 4:39 am

    The only major advantage the Gundams in 00 really have are the GN Field and Trans-Am. The GN Field is rendered pretty much useless by another MS with a GN Drive and the Trans-Am is like a desperation system.

    Plus once the GN-X is introduced the Gundams in 00 start looking like the Gundams for the U.C timeline. Technically more advanced, but nothing close to invincible.

23. 23 Epi August 5, 2008 at 4:45 am

    (oops hit submit too quick)

    Don’t get me wrong Kaioshin, Geass will have an ending. I’m sure the main plotlines of Suzaku, Lelouch, Nunally and CC will be resolved. Quite possibly the whole emperor and Schneizel thing will be dealt with as well.

    What I am not sure about is that we can cover the following plotlines without giving most of them either a token ‘death scene’ or ’still frame’ in the ending during the ending credits treatment:
    Viletta x Ogi’s love story
    Anya’s affiliation with Lelouch
    Nina’s story
    Lloyd and Cecile’s story
    Todo’s story, and Todo’s love interest
    The point of anyone at Ashford - Rivalz? Milly loving Lulu?
    Cornellia finding closure
    Rolo’s story
    The story of any of the other Knights of round
    Tamaki being anything other than comedic support?
    Tian-Zi and Xing-Ke’s story
    Sumeragi’s purpose
    Rakshata and Lloyd’s rivalry
    Diethard’s ultimate goal
    Orange-kun’s fate
    Kallen’s entire love with Lulu vs CCs vs Nunally?
    Kallen and her oni-san?

    So many plotlines, so little time.

24. 24 Haesslich August 5, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Gundams prior to Wing were… well, normal, except the G-Gundams and the really weird ones in Victory, or the whole ‘nanobot magic’ of the Mustached Gundam in Turn-A. Wing is where things became somewhat ridiculous, especially once Wing Zero was unleashed. Gundam SEED and its sequel is where the trend towards ‘bishie pilots, yaoi pairings, and emo characters’ was taken to its logical conclusion (Heero Yuy was the only really emo pilot in Wing; so they had to make Kira and Athrun and Yzak that way too… along with the Druggies, Shinn, Stellar and company…).

    As for Jason, you have to realize he’s writing for the crowd, he’s filling the character he’s created, and he’s tsundere for Sunrise - that’s why he rags on the studio so. He’s writing as Jason Miao, the head blogger of Derailed by Darry/Anime on my Mind… which means you’re taking his posts a tad more seriously than they’re meant to be taken.

    And once Geass is over, I hope they animate Nightmare of Nunnally next - it’s a magical girl series with mecha and Geasses. Something that even the worst serious critics of the current Code Geass series can’t really rail at.

25. 25 Myssa Rei August 6, 2008 at 1:09 am

    I’d think that the main problem people are having with Geass is that, aside from its main plot (Lelouch’s campaign against his Father) and the characters associated there, there are OTHER plots — both major AND minor — that are intertwined into the narrative. While nowhere on the level of LoGH, it gets to the point where the ‘casual’ viewer will need some sort of flowchart to follow them all.

    While some of these have an indirect bearing on the advancement of the story, some of the other stuff seem to have been introduced only to distract the viewers, after which they quickly become irrelevant. Isn’t Xing-Ke SUPPOSED to be dying? Isn’t Lulu SUPPOSED to rescue Kallen? Isn’t Sayoko SUPPOSED to be a personal caretaker and NOT a maid (nevermind super-ninja meido)?

    Although we’ll VERY likely see resolution to the Area 11 Rebellion and Lelouch’s revenge plotlines (plus CC’s wish), everything else… Well, they’ll be lucky if they even get a passing mention in the series epilogue.

    Now to derail things a bit…

    Again with JASON! By the God Empress, what is it with you and Jason (or anything KyoAni)? Again, you’re taking him WAY too seriously. I know you’re trying to establish a ’serious’ and ‘critical’ blogging style, but it’s not really helping your efforts, much like dropping a half-veiled jab at anything and everything done by KyoAni in most of your posts.

    Seriously, complain at GONZO (though Druaga and Brassreiter werre surprisingly good watches), that’s where hate needs to be piled on.

    Haesslich is probably the BIGGEST poster on Jason’s blog, and what he said about the guy is spot on; Jason’s online persona, as much as I’ve surmised, is one big act, and he’s just playing to the expectations of the people who visit his site, who ARE there for the unserious jabs and pop-recycled witticisms, and snarky look at the popular shows airing in the season (which are actually funny, unlike the gloom and doom that DarkMirage exudes). Heck, if I was an engineer in real-life, even I’d lay off the serious…

    I’m a Financial Analyst, mind, so it’s my JOB to be critical at things (specifically, people’s personal information and assets, and how well they handle those, oh yes)… Which is why I don’t want to see them extending into my hobbies. If I wanted to think hard while on my breaks, I’d read Machiavelli, not watch anime.

26. 26 Kaioshin Sama August 6, 2008 at 2:10 am

    @Myssa Rei:

    I’m not nearly as serious as you might believe Myssa. I draw my primary inspiration from comedians like Jon Stewart and Leslie Nielsen who act really serious most of the time, but really they are only serious about 5% of the time and are in on the joke they are making and/or participating in while appearing not to have a clue about it.

    Really though, I think your imagining these half-veiled criticisms of Kyoto Animation. A lot of the time when I mention them it is either pure jest at their hyper popularity among fans or tied to something that relates to their penchant for moe girls. In a way it’s almost no different from what Jason himself does with Gonzo and Sunrise, only less tailored to a specific audience and just for fun and alleviation of boredom. The difference between me and him though is that with me everybody gets a turn from time to time while he’s always beating the same drum. That’s pretty much the only thing I really have against his style. The guy could be a true talent among many if he mixed it up once every 5 years. Instead I find him settling for less and not challenging himself at all.

    Anyway I wouldn’t really have as much fun poking fun at Gonzo because it makes to easy a target. Although I did just compare them to SEGA a couple days ago. Still, normally I like to challenge myself to come up with original ideas or concepts and ways to communicate them and frankly I’ve been a little disappointed in myself recently, which is why I’m trying to cook up something special with the next Geass review.

27. 27 Myssa Rei August 6, 2008 at 3:20 am

    Kaioshin: Heh, well, as I mentioned, Jason makes for easy laughs. British Wit isn’t exactly what Haesslich and me expect when we visit, that’s for sure.

    As for KyoAni, ah, the criticism… I’d give MANY of my own (camera angles, adaptation pacing mostly), but I’d rather just *enjoy* the show instead, as griping tends to diminish whatever enjoyment one has. Since their shows are of a less cerebral nature (instead focusing on emotions), just sitting back and watching comes easily. Not as much as the stuff HAL Filmaker comes out with, but quite close.

    Though as I’m not a blogger, and since I have shows like Hidamari Sketch, and Someday’s Dreamers: Summer Skies on my current watch list (along with heavyweights Macross and Geass, and hidden gems like Kyouran Kazoku and Allison to Lillia), my opinion doesn’t really count for much. ;P

28. 28 Haesslich August 6, 2008 at 6:07 am

    That’s not exactly British Wit either, Myssa Rei. However, KyoAni tends to focus on emotions and pretty pictures… which so far has gotten them a lot of fans. Sunrise USED to focus on original concepts, and still do to some extent (Geass is a notable example), but tend to go more for series which do make money for their sponsors (Bandai).

    In a way, they’re more EA than anything else… but that’s another post. As for series, Hidamari Sketch… is very relaxing.

29. 29 Kaioshin Sama August 6, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    @Myssa Rei: Actually as long as your opinion is founded in good faith and forethought it counts as much as any. Also Kyouran Kazoku Nikki is messed up. It feels like I’m watching the series in fast forward sometimes, but it’s just the manic pace of the show itself.

    I think we could all do with a little less griping and more enjoying our shows though.

    @Haesslich: Kyoani also goes for series that make money for their sponsors Kadokawa Shoten and Visual Arts, only they aren’t into the original series affairs like Sunrise. In their case it’s more like a task as a opposed to a legal kickback. It still comes down to a you scratch our back we scratch yours situation though.

    Sunrise though tends to go for redefinition more often then not I find even when doing stuff that would make money for Bandai. For example Namco Bandai asks them to do an iDOLM@STER adaptation. They’re like, “Okay, but we get to do it out way”, and thus we end up with iDOLM@STER Xenoglossia, which isn’t exactly like towing the line for the sponsor. It’s more likely to split the fanbase of iDOLM@STER games then to draw them all in and to bring in mecha/drama fans instead. That’s why I’m expecting Tales of The Abyss to deviate a little along the line.

    Kyoani however is more for towing the line and they do exactly what they are told by the sponsors in their adaptations without any sort of risk taking. Variance in the Key/Visual Arts adaptations for example goes only as far as what’s necessary in making the transition from Visual Novel to animation. As such the aim is at being loyal to the source story and not pissing off the fans. No out of left field surprises and a KISS method are preferrable with some types of fans.

    Same idea in pleasing the sponsor, different approach in pushing the envelope, it all depends on what you are looking for in your anime.

30. 30 Haesslich August 7, 2008 at 6:42 am

    As I’ve said previously here, KyoAni are the masters at adapting existing material. I tend to think of them as the BioWare of studios - very, very good at taking existing licenses and settings, then refining the hell out of why people like them before releasing their products onto the world, with the occasional edit for the DVD version (like the weird animation on Haruhi’s legs in one episodE). \

    And that’s ‘toeing the line’, by the way. KyoAni does muck around with the product quite a bit (Fumoffu follows the manga storylines more than anything, The Second Raid reworked the incestuous twin brothers into the fanservice-providing sisters), which isn’t exactly all that loyal to the original source. Lucky Star also saw some retooling, which is why the director got replaced a few episodes in and we got a lot of filler stuff with Haruhi jokes repeated in the middle third.

    In that way, they’re a lot like J.C. Staff used to be, prior to Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana; very loyal to the SPIRIT of the series, which is why we sometimes got fillers like the extra Fuuko stuff in Kanon, the fanservice-friendly alterations in Haruhi (they ditched Snow Mountain, IIRC, which should’ve taken place earlier on… within the run of the series, if I remember it right), Lucky Star’s turning into a Haruhi fanservice machine, and Clannad following the Toei story very faithfully with a few changes for the Nagisa fans.

31. 31 Haesslich August 7, 2008 at 6:43 am

    Or, to put it another way, the stuff that gets added as filler tends to fit within the series without feeling inorganic and unnatural… the Haruhi-commercials in Lucky Star being the main exception to that rule. Think of the cat episode in Mahoraba, which was anime-original, or some of the Honey and Clover stuff which didn’t appear in the manga.

32. 32 Kaioshin Sama August 7, 2008 at 7:14 am

    Well whatever the case, this is sort of off-topic from the Code Geass making no sense thing. Besides according to an incoming link I am exhibiting self-serving attributional bias. Yeah that’s right, there’s this one guy that actually stalks my posts and works slams into his articles based off of perceived bias against Kyoani. He’s a little bit of a fanatic so I don’t really want to give him anymore reason to cause trouble even if I’ve taken precautions.

    I generally prefer avoiding the topic of discussing Kyoto Animation as anytime I ever talk about them it brings trouble my way and I only enjoy trouble in measured expected doses so lets move on.

33. 33 Kawaii Shoujo August 7, 2008 at 7:18 am

    The problem is that Code Geass sucks. Code Geass is a bad show and you should feel bad.

34. 34 Kaioshin Sama August 7, 2008 at 7:29 am

    Sigh…..you know I can see the Sage right? Whatever, we’ll just leave the 4channer up for fun until it gets annoying. I should add that to the topic though.

    Would be trolls need to learn how to troll better and cover their tracks. Seriously that was just embarassing.

35. 35 miasmacloud August 7, 2008 at 7:30 am

    “Well for starters Code Geass remains the only series I’ve ever seen that has had a dedicated blog to it attempting to explain how the series is a trainwreck (the blog is in fact called Code Trainwreck)”

    Don’t use my blog as a mis-represented example.

    I fail to see how posts that contain sound episode stuff, lyrics and sometimes lyric translations, lists of spoilers, random fanart I find, predictions for future episodes, walls of tl;dr about Schneizel, things like how Dominos of Japan has Orange drink and Pizza Hut doesn’t, amounts to a blog completely dedicated to talking about how Code Geass is a trainwreck.

    Do I, the sole author that blog, think its a trainwreck? Yes, actually, I do. However, does that mean that every entry on my blog says “this shit is a trainwreck why are we watching it”? Is every post on my blog dedicated to dissecting each part of Geass and making up some wall of tl;dr about how this is a trainwreck? No, it doesn’t, and the fact I fansub it should be testament to either my enjoyment or amusement with or tolerance of “trainwrecks”.

36. 36 Kaioshin Sama August 7, 2008 at 7:45 am

    @Miasmacloud: The point I was making was about the deliberate negative stance taken by bloggers of Code Geass, not about the content. You insist that your site is not meant to be taken seriously and you don’t really stand behind what you write, so I thought you wouldn’t mind it being used as an example of what I’m talking about. It’s nothing personal, I’m not conducting any sort of witch hunt here or condemnation of your writing etc. so much as using it as a key example of the path I think Code Geass commentary has taken.

    Now if you want I will gladly remove the passage about your blog as a gesture of good faith if you strongly insist, but the overall point I’m trying to make about the blogging and trolling of Code Geass remains the same. In fact some people kindly made that point for me not just a few minutes ago, albeit in a painfully obvious manner. I should thank them, but whatever.

37. 37 miasmacloud August 7, 2008 at 8:57 am

    “The point I was making was about the deliberate negative stance taken by bloggers of Code Geass, not about the content.”

    May I be blunt?

    “dedicated blog to it attempting to explain how the series is a trainwreck” is a direct statement about content that says the content is trying to explain series = trainwreck, and there’s no other way to read that sentence, hence why I said I’m being mis-represented.

38. 38 Kaioshin Sama August 7, 2008 at 9:19 am

    Look, I’ll tell you what. I will remove the passage from my article right now, August 7th 5:14 AM Eastern Time as a gesture of good faith if you will remove your response article from the internet and then we will call it even. I’m a reasonable guy so I don’t mind it if you so insist. However if you don’t acknowledge this gesture in some way on your blog in a straight forward manner by August 7th 5:14 PM Eastern time then it will be reintroduced as it was out of principle.

    I think this sounds fair and I will even throw in a conditional apology as well for mentioning your blog without permission, though I only did so because you insist that your blog isn’t meant to be treated seriously and seemed to not be worried to much about the impression it leaves.

    Sound fair? Balls in your court now Miasmacloud.

39. 39 anon August 7, 2008 at 9:37 am

    The order of events, imo:

    Kaio judged miasma’s blog by its title without ever reading any of it.

    Kaio even said at Anime Suki he isn’t going to bookmark or follow it.

    Kaio was too biased and lumped it together with the internet hate machine based purely on the title and her use of the word “fabulous”.

    So Kaio writes this article and mentions her blog as having anti-Geass content, having read barely any of the content.

    She comes by and goes, “No”, and writes an article at her blog that basically says “No”.

    Kaio goes and actually read some of the content and figures out this was a pretty dumb move, comes up with an excuse that miasma seems apathetic so he didn’t think she’d care.

    Kaio figures out that statement was screwed up so now he’s trying to back pad.

    …..I don’t see why miasma should do anything when Kaio’s the one at fault here for judging something by its title.

40. 40 Kaioshin Sama August 7, 2008 at 9:58 am

    And like I expected you throw it all away. How did I not see that coming. You still miss the point and now you are just annoying me. The passage is going back in and I’m not dealing with you anymore. That’s it. Sorry. You’re done. Bye. And take your anons with you.

    Actually wait, let me just say one more thing. This being the second time you have missed the point of something I have written and taken it out of context how dare you accuse me of taking your blog out of context when you’ve done the same. You are the one pushing buttons Miasmacloud and starting drama not me. The fact that you need these fellow anons to come in and take your side with all of this should really say something about this.

    Not to mention the fact that I’ve tried to be reasonable with you and admit that I may have conceivably misunderstood the intentions of your blog and even offered to respect your wishes barring any snarkiness. That apparently wasn’t good enough and you wanted to keep the trouble going this much is clearly obvious. I’ve dealt with your kind before and frankly I’m not willing to do it again, so I want nothing to do with you from this point on. I’m not even going to talk about you, and I don’t want to hear any more from you or your readers about this. This ends now. Are we clear?

41. 41 Kurogane August 7, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    This kind of negativity is the problem! I don’t care if I am beginning to sound like a broken record, but seriously guys, relax! It seems to me that people are just interested in provocative, groundless hate speeches and endless doom-saying. Why doesn’t anyone realise that this takes away the enjoyment from those anime shows? I think that’s what people need to understand. There is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy critique and maybe some humour (I find Darkmirage’s blog to be quite amusing) but using definite statements to judge a series is just unfair. “Trainwreck” implies that this show is going to end very, very badly and quite frankly, none of us know how Code Geass is going to end, so why don’t we just shut up for now and wait until it’s finished? And even once it is finished, people are going to deviate on whether it’s a trainwreck or not and those too ashamed to admit that they think it isn’t will just conjure the most farcical of ideas…..

    I applaud your courage Kaioshin-sama and don’t let those trolls intimidate you. Both Kyo-ani and Sunrise are companies with a pretty good record of success and both are interested in the commercial aspects of their market, like any decent company should be. I don’t know where people get the idea from that just because they decide to release Lancelot or Haruhi toys does it mean that they are just out for money and don’t give a whatever about how crap the anime itself is. That’s obviously not the smartest way to make money.

    I love Code Geass, I love Macross Frontier, I love the Melancholy of Suzumiyah Haruhi….is it so difficult to love an anime without becoming fanatical and bias toward any other ones? I always wonder what has caused this sudden uproar of hatred in the anime community. Anyone care to enlighten me?

42. 42 miasmacloud August 7, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    …miasma goes to take a nap and love is over? okay then, never mind an honest reply at this point. if an anon came by and posted, its because i linked it in IRC last night and went “wat”. i honestly didn’t tell anyone to do anything.

    smell ya later.

43. 43 Kaioshin Sama August 7, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    @Kurogane: Well my stance has been that as long as an actual product isn’t featured prominently in the episodes themselves then I am okay with merchandising on the side. It’s not effecting my viewing of the anime after all. However, when products start getting featured in actual episodes is where I draw the line. Pizza Hut in Geass and Haruhi in Lucky Star push the envelope and I think that people have a justifiable case for being upset with either instances as they do impact the show itself and frankly it’s an insult to the viewers who are there to watch the show and not thinly-veiled advertisements for real life products. I say keep the merchandising to commercials inbetween shows, which frankly should be enough.

    Where I disagree with others is that mecha combat in anime like Geass or Gundam is strictly for the purpose of selling model kits and that it should be derided. To me a full scale mecha depicted as a usable tool of battle and a scaled down model based on said mecha sold in stores are two completely seperate things. I just don’t personally see how you can construe a mecha battle in a show as an advertisement or endorsement of a merchandising piece.

    To me at least model kits appear to sell because people want them. There are indeed those who like to collect them and will spend the money anyway just to own a model of their favourite in-show mecha. What it really comes down to is whether one likes the depiction of mecha in a show themselves and is willing to accept their existence and not whether they are advertisements for other products. That and the fact that the models are based off a critical part of the shows themselves and haven’t just been shoehorned in by advertisers.

    Okay and to finally address all of this nonsense once and for all and also for like the 3rd time. Here’s the deal:

    - I offered an apology for possibly misrepresenting somebody’s website and also agreed to remove the passage in question in return for the removal of responsive content that also defamed my blog. The reason I stated it was conditional is that I wanted to see what the other party would do and whether they were willing to meet me halfway. I don’t think I was unreasonable in recommending a removal of of one accusation for the removal of it’s response, seeing as how it wouldn’t apply anymore anyway.

    - Both offers were rejected and so there’s really nothing I can do about it.

    - If I offer an apology and am spurned then it’s not my problem anymore. I can’t give something to somebody if they don’t want it nor can I force them to take it.

    - What I can do is at least remove the passage, which I eventually have decided to do permenantly just because I feel it’s ultimately the right thing to do.

    - The person has also insisted to me they were sleeping during the time I made my first offer, which is reasonable grounds for why they didn’t get the chance to consider my offer. I think it’s fair enough that they deserve a second chance and regret my rather quick course of action without waiting to see what’s what. Still I’m rather disappointed in just how far this has gone over a dispute that could have probably been solved rather easily.

    - I know this likely won’t stop the trolls from coming (but they are being dealt with via other methods I assure people), but at least I get to say I bloody well tried to settle things civilly in the end. I have also noted the persons insistance that they had nothing to do with the troll rush on animehistory and am willing to take their word at face value as well.

    Now to the people that are continuing to cause trouble, it’s simply not going to be tolerated and as anyone can see I have enable an approval process to deal with it for the time being. I have no obligation to respond to insults and belittlement with any sort of “manning up” when the insistance to do so seems more like a witchhunt then anything AND I have no desire to cow to the demands of petty trolls looking for quick lulz. I don’t need a mediator for this, good intentions or not and have dealt with it to the best of my ability on my own.

    I am tired of repeating myself so this is the end. This is no longer my problem as I have done everything I possibly can to see things resolved, but obviously the other party does not want this as of the time being. Really it can go no further anyway as every party knows darn well. Like I’ve said before, I’ve been down this road before and am not going to overextend beyond what’s necessary and in my power to do to reach a fair resolution acceptable to all parties, which I have done. Apology for possible misrepresentation is back on the table and this time non-conditional of course. If somebody’s sleeping it’s not their fault that they didn’t respond, but I’m not going to go trying to force somebody to take it. They’ll have to do that on their own. That is all.

44. 44 TheFluff August 15, 2008 at 1:34 am

    TOO LONG;
    DID NOT READ

    god damn it you are fucking dumb

45. 45 Haesslich August 15, 2008 at 3:05 am

    TheFluff: You’re not helping the case ‘against’ Kaioshin any. You’re sounding dangerously like a Narutard, even.

46. 46 Kaioshin Sama August 15, 2008 at 3:46 am

    Man they’re still coming even now? You people have way to much time I tell ya…..

    @The Fluff: Thanks for sharing that you didn’t read my article. I mean it, I really needed to know or care that you have nothing to contribute at all to this topic.

47. 47 nanashi August 15, 2008 at 10:55 am

    [insert witty comment here]

    Uh, the main issue is not with the fantasy and pseudoscience and farfetched plot and whatnot, those are actually surefine. The main issue is that there’s too many shit going on that even the Sunrise staff admitted that they are not sure what is going on themselves.

    I’ll raise other people’s points about the Gefjun train. The Gefjun field is said to affect Generation 5 and below in ep 18, yet in S1 the Lancelot (a Generation 7), was immobilized by the field.
    Also: Jeremiah unaffected in ep 18, uh okay

    Another thing! In S1, Lelouch tested out in the beginning that his Geass only works with actual eye contact, yet when he Geassed Charles he used ZOMG REFLECTION RAYZ liek wtf.

    Then there’s those huge robots that originally rollerbladed around in the city and going pewpew that now suddenly all FLY AND SHOOT GIANT CANNONS. (Just like Gundam.)

    Lastly, you don’t need to be convinced that Geass makes no sense, nobody really cares. What you need is to stop going “stop hating geass” and trying to force opinions on people.

48. 48 blake steel August 15, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Even though I have never seen the show Code Geass. I’LL BET THAT THERE ARE GOD DAMN TRAITORS ON THIS SHOW JUST LIKE THE ANIME ADAPTION OF THE IDOLM@STER.

49. 49 Kaioshin Sama August 15, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    @nanashi:

    “The main issue is that there’s too many shit going on that even the Sunrise staff admitted that they are not sure what is going on themselves.”

    I’d like to see a source for that please because I hardly buy that.

    “The Gefjun field is said to affect Generation 5 and below in ep 18, yet in S1 the Lancelot (a Generation 7), was immobilized by the field.”

    If you are talking about the Guren’s Gefjun disturber then it is indeed capable of shutting down some functions of 7th generation KF’s if they are caught directly within it’s field of effect as we saw in episode 6. The reason that doesn’t happen in episode 18 is that the 7th gens are hovering well above the trains field of effect and these modified ones are different then the Guren’s as far as I can tell, sacrificing potency for field of effect. Same goes for Jeremiah who is also shielding by his 7th generation KF from the worst of it’s effects and hovering above the battlefield. He was nowhere near the things for crying out loud, so how does he get affected? Also I don’t remember Gefjun disturbers in season 1 at all. What episode was this supposed to be in?

    “Another thing! In S1, Lelouch tested out in the beginning that his Geass only works with actual eye contact, yet when he Geassed Charles he used ZOMG REFLECTION RAYZ liek wtf.”

    2 possibilites here. One is that Charles was faking as a show is his new power. He wasn’t even affected by the Geass anymore remember? Lelouch seemed extremely confused when it worked as well because for all he knows it was a gamble. two is that the nature of the Sword of Akasha as some sort of Geass amplifier allowed it to function when reflected in that location somehow. And the show has also used reflection rays to inform the viewer as to the travelling path of a Geass before. They’re not really there, it’s just an animation guide. You shouldn’t take what you see in Code Geass in terms of the Geass so literally, and if you do then that’s your problem.

    “Then there’s those huge robots that originally rollerbladed around in the city and going pewpew that now suddenly all FLY AND SHOOT GIANT CANNONS. (Just like Gundam.)”

    Yes Gundam is the only series where robots fly around and shoot “Giant Cannons”. Let’s all hate on Gundam for being a mecha series shall we? By the way, why is this a huge problem? Technology got better in CG. Simple as that. What would have been unrealistic or bullshit is if we had Lancelot acting as a prototype in season 1 and then nothing came of it and the technology in Code Geass never advanced at all throughout it’s 50 episode. You see, I don’t understand how it’s a valid criticism that the fighting isn’t exactly the same as it was in the beginning. You know…..like Gundam Seed Destiny, which had the exact same type of battle throughout the entire series like a 70’s super robot show. I see it as a postive that new robots are being introduced to spice things up. Also wtf is “pewpew”?

    “Lastly, you don’t need to be convinced that Geass makes no sense, nobody really cares. What you need is to stop going “stop hating geass” and trying to force opinions on people.”

    I could say the same for people who seem insistant on trying to force me to look at the show with lulz and fabulouses and that I’m somehow being way to serious about all this just because they don’t get the jokes I’m constantly making that happen to merely not be overused memes. It’s annoying you know, and that’s the reason I wrote this article to begin with. I didn’t try to convince anybody of anything either, I just wrote an article expressing some concerns and let people make up their own minds. Actually I outright asked people to debunk me if they thought I was somehow wrong.

    Then the trolls came because it contradicts their philosophy and oh we can’t have independent thought on the internet, no sir. By all rights what should happen is that they should stop trying to crap up my blog by spamming swastikas and hate messages towards me, not me not giving a voice to my thoughts and theories no matter how controversial they may be on my own damn blog! I’m not breaking any laws here nor naming any names in all of this so please don’t make me the bad guy.

50. 50 blake steel August 15, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Kaioshin:There may be some people that try to make you look bad. But I would never even consider criticizing your articles. It’s ridiculous how those people would be so inconsiderate. The people who are criticizing you obviously have no life and are full of shit. I also don’t get how people have a hard time understanding the plot of a sunrise series. I mean those geniuses of the sunrise company do a really good job of making a dramatic storyline. I think the people from the sunrise company should replace the idiots from the g4 studios.

    When I asked you to not make anymore articles related to Xenoglossia I wasn’t criticizing you there. I don’t see how your articles could be considered controversial.

    People if you are going to criticize someone, go on youtube or something. QUIT TRYING TO MAKE KAIOSHIN LOOK LIKE AN ASSHOLE ON HIS BLOG!!

51. 51 Kaioshin Sama August 15, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    @Blake Steel: Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I wouldn’t exactly call the people at Sunrise geniuses. Thats an honor more suite for the likes of individuals such as Albert Einstein or Carl Sagan for example. People who have a lasting influence on society long after their passing and who contribute to it’s body of knowledge in a way never before seen. Sunrise is an animation studio focused on entertainment & leisure. As such they can’t really be considered geniuses by my standards.

    Rather, I just refuse to call them outright idiots when I think they are doing a good enough job with the Geass franchise. I’m also not against criticism or anything so don’t make that mistake. Just not single-minded criticism of the kind that is repeated over and over, without any examples, (or anything non-generalized for that matter) where people don’t even think about what they are saying and just go with a flow. I mean if things like more powerful robots, symbolic use of animation, or over the top plot and character elements are major issues then I have to question why these people even watch anime.

    Most of these “criticisms” can be applied to just about any anime anyway so I’m also questioning why it only becomes a big deal once something happens in a Sunrise series. I mean it’s not like they are the sole representatives of anime or something like some people seem to think and an element only becomes relevant (positive or negative) once it appears in one of their series.

    Also I’m not against criticism of my blog articles either, I just don’t appreciate that some people are being rather jerky about it. I mean fine some people don’t like what I write, but if somebodies going to bring the hammer down at least do what Nanashi there did and be straight up, straightforward and honest. People aren’t going to get anywhere here by calling me “f’ing dumb” or saying that my articles are too long to read. I mean that’s all really nice, but I don’t really care if somebody didn’t read my article the whole way through. I don’t really need to hear it. Same goes for the personalized insults. Anyway, I had really wanted to let this topic rest, but apparently people still have a major issue with the idea that I’m criticizing the lesser critics.

52. 52 blake steel August 15, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Kaioshin: I take the genius thing back. I think they were really stupid to make Idolm@ster characters a spy for some evil organization(Yukiho) and a psycho bitch(chihaya). To me didn’t fit them at all.

    I thought that you were upset about the criticism of your articles and wanted to make a statement. Damn, I should read more carefully before posting a comment.

53. 53 blake steel August 15, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Just for the record. I am not calling the people in the sunrise company idots okay.

54. 54 Kaioshin Sama August 16, 2008 at 7:29 am

    @Blake Steel: I don’t think you’re getting me here. The whole time I’ve been expressing my discontent with extreme behaviour and opinions. That’s really all it is. Just make up your own mind about these things. You don’t have to change your mind just because I offered an alternative.

    Like I’ve said I’m merely here to address other ways of looking at things, as a sort of counterweight or balance to common opinions etc. usually because I rarely have a topic where I agree entirely with something about anyone. I’m honestly not trying to force anybody to adopt my way of thinking like some people seem to think, I’m just trying to get my way of thinking out there and to give voice to topics usually dominated by another narrative. Isn’t that what blogging is sort of about after all? The underground?

    Well anyway, on a less heavy note and as a general update, I’m actually going to be out of town for this weeks episode of Code Geass so I’ll get to find out what happened when I actually watch the episode instead of having it spoiled for me on forums and such. Hooray *pumps fist*! It should be really fun this week. Let me know if Canada wins any medals while I’m gone…..god forbid…..

55. 55 nanashi August 16, 2008 at 9:23 am

    I’d like to see a source for that please because I hardly buy that.

    That was from a comment in one of the aniblogs out there. Forgot where it came from though. No credibility either way, so forget about that claim.

    Gefjun disturber disabling the Lancelot: S1 ep 18. That was also when Lelouch gave the “Live” command to Suzaku because Schneizel was going to blow everything up. (gosh, I actually had to look it up just for you :V)

    Now, your “possibilities” and explanations are in fact, only theories and speculation. Sunrise not being able to explain why some out-of-place things happen probably attributed to the “no sense” argument.

56. 56 Kaioshin Sama August 16, 2008 at 9:48 am

    @nanashi: Hmmmm…I have to wonder if perhaps the Lancelot incident is precisely why all of the 7th generation Knightmare Frames now have protection against Gefjun disturbers. Pure theory of course. Sometimes…..you know I really do wish like most people that they’d just come out and explain why certain things just are in the series instead of leaving the fans to speculate with theories that usually number in the 10’s, many valid and applicable, but none necessarily provable. You know, they could hammer out the science of things like they do in the good Gundam series. Code Geass R2 is a little more open and loose with it’s science then it probably could be…..and it’s slightly annoying from the perspective of a mecha fan such as myself.

    I stand on the position that the show is better as a character drama then as a mecha series wheras something like Gundam 00 is somewhat better as a mecha series then a character drama. Not that I’d say that Gundam 00 doesn’t have it’s share of good character moments, but….well I think people get what I mean. I hope. :/

57. 57 blake steel August 16, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    I know that I am not the best comment maker here Kaioshin. I also think that I might have been making a too big of a deal about the sunrise company. You know what I just feel like dropping the subject okay. Kaioshin: I have checked the medal count for canada in the Beijing olympics and so far canada has only 3 medals. One gold, one silver, and one bronze. I will let you know if canada wins any more okay.

1. 1 [Ascaloth] Mahou Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto ~Natsu no Sora~, Episode 05 at Riuva : Research Institute for Unicultural Visual Arts Trackback on August 12, 2008 at 6:27 pm

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